Getting through to people
Ok, so it's been a rough start to the year for anyone following hot button topics in society and politics. And that means, especially on these forums, that tempers are flaring, people are throwing accusation back and forth, and the general level of discourse is what you would expect people with diametrically opposed values to have.
But we're not a people with diametrically opposing values. Most people in the nations we know and interact with in fact have similar if not the same values. It's the mechanism we're always fighting over, and that battle often has no victor aside from whatever authority we can get to agree with us. In the end, power determines truth, not truth itself.
I've often felt there must be a better way. And lately, I'm starting to find it.
I visit a forum some of you are familiar with, Breaking News & Religion. It was the largest forum on the Disqus before they stopped hosting channels, and it was and remains one of the most active, with posters throwing up stories and OPs at aa rate of about 20-30 a day, if not more. As with any active forum, this attracts all sorts of commentators, interest groups, bots and trolls. And it also attracts people who just want to argue.
I'm probably either the first or the last of those. And I know many long-timers here and there who also have their established viewpoints and rhetoric and narratives. We've either joined up or butted heads for literal years now, and the patterns never seem to change.
Until this month. I've now had three opportunities to drastically alter the relationship I have with people on forums. One was a relentless troll, who spent literal years stalking me and posting nonsensical insults in reply to any point I made. The other was a very far right commentator who spent more time denying arguments than making them. Both were, as you may tell, not particularly high on my respect list.
But the former, out of the blue, defended me on a point I otherwise could not prove (I was accused of doxxing and using sock accounts, and there isn't really a defense one can make except appeal to your previous behavior and credibility). This troll, who had done nothing but make my life miserable, had a value I didn't know he had. He believed that people should not be accused of things with little evidence and no chance of defense. In that, we were suddenly in agreement, and he stuck his neck out to pursue that value with me.
Despite years of acrimony, we are now civil and even joking with one another. We found the humanity and values we share in one another.
The second person engaged me often on topics which devolved into either a pedantic argument about the rules of the forum for how to debate or denial of sources and experience (he enjoyed using his personal experience as a counter to my data-driven arguments). Then I won one of those pedantic exchanges and it turned out that instead of ranting about it or being angry, he despaired that he felt he was treated unfairly in the same way before I called him on it. I agreed with him that it wasn't fair to have his comments deleted when those making similar comments about him got away with impunity.
This again put our values on the same side, and before the hour was up we'd agreed on a way to handle civil discourse and in the next hour, had a proper debate including understanding of the variability of sources, and we ended up not agreeing but in a way we both learned something about the topic and each other. Again, this is someone who I was not positive about for years.
Today another poster, one who often starts a thread off with insults, asked me to try him when it came to explaining something I thought he never would accept. Instead of biting back with yet more snippy exchanges, I've been inspired by this month to try to reach him. I think I can do it. I've seen it happen not once but twice in rapid succession, and I think I'm starting to understand the key.
It's kindness and compassion. It's always been kindness and compassion. These are people we are writing to (mostly). These are people with hopes, dreams, values, families, experiences and fears. These are people who despite any past behavior always, ALWAYS have a chance to change.
They won't take it every time. I don't know if my streak will continue. But I know it's a damn sight better than what's been going on for years, and I'll take any opportunity to turn things around, because if we don't, this entire nation and our species in general has no future except conflict.
Try it. Please. And then talk about it here, so we can all see how this can work.
POSTED BY BEST IN MODERATION
But we're not a people with diametrically opposing values. Most people in the nations we know and interact with in fact have similar if not the same values. It's the mechanism we're always fighting over, and that battle often has no victor aside from whatever authority we can get to agree with us. In the end, power determines truth, not truth itself.
I've often felt there must be a better way. And lately, I'm starting to find it.
I visit a forum some of you are familiar with, Breaking News & Religion. It was the largest forum on the Disqus before they stopped hosting channels, and it was and remains one of the most active, with posters throwing up stories and OPs at aa rate of about 20-30 a day, if not more. As with any active forum, this attracts all sorts of commentators, interest groups, bots and trolls. And it also attracts people who just want to argue.
I'm probably either the first or the last of those. And I know many long-timers here and there who also have their established viewpoints and rhetoric and narratives. We've either joined up or butted heads for literal years now, and the patterns never seem to change.
Until this month. I've now had three opportunities to drastically alter the relationship I have with people on forums. One was a relentless troll, who spent literal years stalking me and posting nonsensical insults in reply to any point I made. The other was a very far right commentator who spent more time denying arguments than making them. Both were, as you may tell, not particularly high on my respect list.
But the former, out of the blue, defended me on a point I otherwise could not prove (I was accused of doxxing and using sock accounts, and there isn't really a defense one can make except appeal to your previous behavior and credibility). This troll, who had done nothing but make my life miserable, had a value I didn't know he had. He believed that people should not be accused of things with little evidence and no chance of defense. In that, we were suddenly in agreement, and he stuck his neck out to pursue that value with me.
Despite years of acrimony, we are now civil and even joking with one another. We found the humanity and values we share in one another.
The second person engaged me often on topics which devolved into either a pedantic argument about the rules of the forum for how to debate or denial of sources and experience (he enjoyed using his personal experience as a counter to my data-driven arguments). Then I won one of those pedantic exchanges and it turned out that instead of ranting about it or being angry, he despaired that he felt he was treated unfairly in the same way before I called him on it. I agreed with him that it wasn't fair to have his comments deleted when those making similar comments about him got away with impunity.
This again put our values on the same side, and before the hour was up we'd agreed on a way to handle civil discourse and in the next hour, had a proper debate including understanding of the variability of sources, and we ended up not agreeing but in a way we both learned something about the topic and each other. Again, this is someone who I was not positive about for years.
Today another poster, one who often starts a thread off with insults, asked me to try him when it came to explaining something I thought he never would accept. Instead of biting back with yet more snippy exchanges, I've been inspired by this month to try to reach him. I think I can do it. I've seen it happen not once but twice in rapid succession, and I think I'm starting to understand the key.
It's kindness and compassion. It's always been kindness and compassion. These are people we are writing to (mostly). These are people with hopes, dreams, values, families, experiences and fears. These are people who despite any past behavior always, ALWAYS have a chance to change.
They won't take it every time. I don't know if my streak will continue. But I know it's a damn sight better than what's been going on for years, and I'll take any opportunity to turn things around, because if we don't, this entire nation and our species in general has no future except conflict.
Try it. Please. And then talk about it here, so we can all see how this can work.
POSTED BY BEST IN MODERATION
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